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Greetings!

Postby riverfox » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:57 pm

Greetings!

I wish I were introducing myself under more auspicious circumstances.

I'm new to internet fora and was moved to sign up here after watching a truly sickening lecture presented by Dr Richard Carrier describing the vile treatment Jen Mc Creight and other prominent women within our community have been subjected to at the hands of those identifying as atheists.

The sense of outrage I am currently experiencing is visceral.

Until now I have, perhaps naively, assumed that the atheist community was an affiliation of those moved by the Enlightenment spirit including a broadly humanistic approach rooted in empathy with and compassion for our conspecifics.

To discover that atheism is now a cover for the kind of abusive misogyny that would disgrace the most bigoted and patriarchal of religions saddens me beyond measure.

Atheism+ rightly suggest that we need, as a community, to consider what we seek freedom from religion in order to facilitate.

I would hope the answer might be that week seek freedom from superstitious impositions in order to enter into an adult secular conversation around the ways in which we can work together to create a society worthy of the name and capable of safeguarding and promoting the welfare of all its members.

As the defence of marginalised demographics and a concern with issues relating to social justice would seem centre to the realisation of this aspiration I would seem to be pulling in the same direction as many addressing this forum.

Rant over, I am a man rapidly eating up middle age and a scientist / counsellor by training and profession.

I hope you will not hold this rather predictable profile against me as I seek to make whatever contribution I can towards the goal of seeing to it the atheist community is a civilising and productive force in our world despite the best effort of those who would disgrace not only themselves but the rest of us by association.
Last edited by riverfox on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby SubMor » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:19 pm

Hi there, riverfox. Welcome aboard!

I (we all?) know the outrage of which you speak. Having that bubble popped is not a pleasant experience.

We've got something of a tradition around these parts, one in which we deliver a link basket of helpful text-based goodies to our new members:
Forum rules, etc. Colloquially referred to as "the link basket." [ Show ]

Have a read through it, and feel free to hit up the Information and Answers subforum if anything's unclear.

I look forward to seeing you around!
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Re: Greetings!

Postby ceepolk » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:10 pm

riverfox wrote:The sense of outrage I am currently experiencing is visceral.

Until now I have, perhaps naively, assumed that the atheist community was an affiliation of those moved by the Enlightenment spirit including a broadly humanistic approach rooted in empathy with and compassion for our conspecifics.

To discover that atheism is now a cover for the kind of abusive misogyny that would disgrace the most bigoted and patriarchal of religions saddens me beyond measure.


RIGHT?

That's the big reason why I really stayed away from collectives of atheists - because i had nothing in common with them besides non-belief, and that simply was not enough. This forum is the first place I've joined up with atheists, because the chance that I'd meet someone who wasn't actually completely awful was orders of magnitude higher than anywhere else on the atheist internet.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby riverfox » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:06 am

Sorry to hear that ceepolk.

I really had no idea that our community had become infested by, well, discretion at this point would seem to be the better part of valour.

I hope we both find the supportive environment we seek.

Don't be a stranger!
Last edited by SubMor on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: I have applied the red pen to a word in this post.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby SubMor » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:09 pm

Moderator notice

Quick note: I just applied a big red editor's pen to a word in your post. Describing something as
the deleted word [ Show ]
sane
promotes undue stigmatization. Here's a link I found after like 10 seconds of googling for more information, but I'm sure there are more in-depth analyses readily available. Additionally, the Information and Answers subforum would be a good place to discuss ableism further if necessary.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby riverfox » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:27 pm

Impressive!

Second post and already the big red pen has been applied as if I were a recalcitrant schoolboy.

Having trawled the net.

No pun intended.

I now find that a taste for authoritarianism and self-righteous intolerance has become the hallmark of this forum.

If the entirely standard practice of applying the principal on charity when attempting to engage with and interpret another's comments had been applied in this case it should have been clear that the offending word would have been intended to covey meanings of rational and measured.

To reach and act upon the conclusion that the word "promotes undue stigmatisation", the disturbing certainty and finality of the statement has been noted, suggests an eagerness to assign the worst possible intentions to your contributors.

The willingness to take and express vicarious offence is also of concern.

Living with a range of often truly debilitating mental health conditions I find the suggestion that I need a champion outrageous and risible in equal measure.

All of this is a great pity.

The truly surreal discourse I have encountered since engaging with this forum is, in my doubtless to be dismissed as reactionary opinion, both indulgent and wasteful.

How many of those approaching this network in a spirit of partnership can you afford to alienate?

Having liberated myself from one authoritarian institution whose hierarchy feel free to act without restraint in order to protect the faithful from heresy and error I have no intentions of meekly submitting to behaviour I experience as all to familiar here.

Despise this regrettable outcome I continue to support the broad thrust of Atheism+ as outlined by both Dr Richard Carrier and Jen McCreight.

I therefore wish you all well in your endeavours and will now depart in search of pastures new.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby AlexSeanchai » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:39 pm

Point of interest: I'm not entirely sane but I'm pretty sure I'm rational.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby Flewellyn » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:42 pm

Really?

One correction, one TINY correction, and our newbie goes from "Hey, glad to be here" to "AUTHORITARIANS!" in three posts?

And such a small correction, too. And applied so gently, and with full understanding that the poster is new.

Good heavens.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby ApostateltsopA » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:10 am

But will xe stick the flounce?
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Re: Greetings!

Postby Lovely » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:00 am

riverfox wrote:
If the entirely standard practice of applying the principal on charity when attempting to engage with and interpret another's comments had been applied in this case it should have been clear that the offending word would have been intended to covey meanings of rational and measured.



That's impressive. Because that's exactly what ableism is. The idea that someone with a mental illness cannot ever be rational or measured.

Such a small thing for you to write so many words about. To think that your use of the word must be regarded as understood while handwaving away anyone already here suffering from the stigma of mental illness having to take in another microaggression, well, it's astounding.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby oolon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:47 pm

Hello and goodby riverfox... I assume you have gone? If not google microaggressions and see the evidence for them and the harm done. I think removing ableist language and attitudes is probably the hardest, from my pov anyway, might just be me! The atheist community has a liking for calling anyone that is wrong about something a whole litany of ableist terms to denigrate them, but it has splash damage and isn't even accurate. Plenty of neurodiverse people who are atheist/creationist/every-ist ... So its not logical and above all bigoted.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby SubMor » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:40 pm

Did riverfox and I just disprove tone policing?

Because I think we may have done just that.
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Re: Greetings!

Postby AlexSeanchai » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:03 pm

oolon: not just you.

SubMor: yep.
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