Mental Illness Support

[apfergus]

It's been brought up on some of the blogs, but I haven't seen any discussions pop up on the forums yet. So I thought I'd go ahead and try to open it up for a discussion of mental illness and how it affects one's ability to participate in atheist groups or discussions. If anyone has anything to say regarding what could be done to help those coping with mental illness become more involved, that is also extremely welcome.

I personally deal with a not-depression, but still mostly depressive illness comorbid with generalized anxiety. Recently I added a new medication which has helped substantially with my anxiety and enabled me to actually start participating on this forum (good timing), but online discussions still make me pretty nervous (more so than face-to-face, oddly). I find the speed with which forum threads develop to be overwhelming and I tend to take my time and choose my words very carefully so it feels hard to get a word in. I'm also super self conscious about repeating ideas already expressed. So if I fail to participate in my own thread, know I'm not ignoring responses--probably just bogged down.

I'm a graduate student as well, and graduate school is a very high stress environment that can be extremely exacerbating. So if there are any fellow grad students or grad school survivors out there, coping with mental illness or not, I send you my support and admiration. Of potential interest is an old post from 2009 on Thus Spake Zuska: Grad School Fosters Depression; How to Fight It.

Having said my piece, I'll now yield the floor.

[PaulC]

I think we all want to be supportive of mental illness as much as we can. And understand it to the degree we can, although mental illness is particularly hard to understand if you haven't experienced it or been professionally trained. I think mainly if someone says something insensitive to those with mental illness it's important for someone to make them aware of the insensitivity.

Wish you the best of luck.

[JessPop]

I think it is important to reiterate at points like this, that the point of this site and the idea around it, is to be open, and inviting and understanding, and supportive. And if someone is struggling with any aspect of a forum or anything, it has to be ok to just say so, and expect people to genuinely have an interest in how to make things better. I think that's what we're all doing here, really.

[PaulC]

One thing I just noticed that might be helpful to you: if you are writing a post and hit submit the forum automatically shows you if there were new posts while you were writing, so you can quickly check if someone already said the point you were about to make.

[Lutzifer]

apart from taking medication for mental illnesses, finding a psychologist or a support group is very important. A forum can help there, as it is more readily available. But it cannot give you the same support that professional help can give you.

[rriverstone]

Can we reframe the discussion and discuss mental health challenges, please? I see language in here like "suffering from..." I see dependence on an dysfunctional medical model where prescribing medications is the FIRST resort, rather than farther down in the treatment regime, because it's convenient to medical personnel and because Big PhRMA has had a devastating impact on the medical industrial complex.

As a skeptic, I see dangerous, problematic assumptions being made in mental health treatment these days. So, people who are already challenged are under near total control by a system that isn't functioning in the clients', but rather the industry's, best interests.

Mad Pride activists work hard to argue for peer-run groups, homes, shelters, warm lines, etc. And they meet fierce resistance from the establishment, even while the consistently provide scientifically based evidence that alternatives to the medical model are more effective and that psychtropics, mood elevators, anti-depressants, neuroleptics, etc. are: being over-prescribed, have life-shortening side effects, exacerbate suicidal ideations, are prescribed to children without testing for very mild "diagnoses," etc.

We need to destigmatize mental health issues. We need to understand that MENTAL health IS PHYSICAL HEALTH. We need to articulate that psychological abuse is just as detrimental as, and often more so than, physical assault. We need to clarify that people who are being traumatized, bullied and abused by verbal abuse are not "weak" or "whining," but are having our health put at risk by cruelty. Words and attitudes matter.

Resources:
Mind Freedom http://www.mindfreedom.org/

Psych Rights http://psychrights.org/index.htm

Occupy Psychiatry facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Me ... 3183684165

The Icarus Project -- peer support
http://theicarusproject.net/

[apfergus]

Thanks for the support, I guess. I'm quite comfortable with my illness and I'm not really looking for comfort. I see a therapist and someone to manage my medications quite regularly. My intention was to try to have a conversation about mental illness and how it affects different people and their ability to participate in different situations be it online forums, at local meetups, or at conventions. I was just using a bit of my personal story to try to get things started.

Can we reframe the discussion and discuss mental health challenges, please? I see language in here like "suffering from..." I see dependence on an dysfunctional medical model where prescribing medications is the FIRST resort, rather than farther down in the treatment regime, because it's convenient to medical personnel and because Big PhRMA has had a devastating impact on the medical industrial complex.

It is my understanding as well that there are many situations in which medication is an early resort with potentially dangerous consequences. Particularly over-medication of children for disorders that are typically not diagnosed until early adulthood. I also think people can be too dismissive of medication. There are plenty of cases where it does help people and is even a necessary part of treatment. I'll grant you that the system is deeply flawed, but the response can come dangerously close to looking down on people who do take medication as a part of their treatment.

We need to destigmatize mental health issues. We need to understand that MENTAL health IS PHYSICAL HEALTH. We need to articulate that psychological abuse is just as detrimental as, and often more so than, physical assault. We need to clarify that people who are being traumatized, bullied and abused by verbal abuse are not "weak" or "whining," but are having our health put at risk by cruelty. Words and attitudes matter.

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the resource links, as well. I'll try to check those out.

[rumblestiltsken]

Rriverstone,

What language do you think should be used instead of things like "suffering from"?

Is treating mental health issues the same as any medical illness stigmatising? I thought that removing that distinction was the point, that medical illnesses are less stigmatising? I always saw the major problem as pathologising people, ie "depressed person" or "lupus patient".

I know this may seem a little remedial here, but since it is relevant to this conversation I would love to hear a bit more about this.

[NicoleIntrovert]

As someone who has Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Depression I can speak up for myself and state that I don't mind "suffering from". Some days I am suffering, and I am not afraid to say that. I think a lot of organizations like The Icarus Project are good to a point, but at the same time, some of the things that they do can potentially be harmful. If someone is okay with "embracing" and living with their mental illness in a carefree way... that is cool. But that is not for me. I cannot use my Anxiety to any sort of advantage. That's also the funny thing about mental illness, it doesn't effect people the same way. I have to function in a way where I can do my job, pay my bills, be a wife, and take care of my dog.

I may be mistaken, but some of what I have picked up from things like the Icraus project are so dismissive of medication and expect you to have a strong support system. Part of my mental illness is that I feel like I am a burden on my friends and family. I cannot dismiss medication and call people if I am having an anxiety attack. Shit... even thinking about calling people sometimes triggers an anxiety attack for me.

Again... this is my personal experience with my illness and why I prefer to try to go it on my own, and only bother people when absolutely necessary. I would like friends I can openly talk about struggles with.

In regards to having a difficult time in the atheist community... Why do so many atheist groups want to meet in restaurants!?!? I have a really hard time eating or even being in restaurants because of sensory overload. Sights, smells, sounds all at once are very overwhelming to me. It seems the active atheist groups near me have breakfast and dinner meetings, and I have not yet been able to bring myself to go to one. *sigh*

[simpleflower]

Can we reframe the discussion and discuss mental health challenges, please? I see language in here like "suffering from..." I see dependence on an dysfunctional medical model where prescribing medications is the FIRST resort, rather than farther down in the treatment regime, because it's convenient to medical personnel and because Big PhRMA has had a devastating impact on the medical industrial complex.

As a skeptic, I see dangerous, problematic assumptions being made in mental health treatment these days. So, people who are already challenged are under near total control by a system that isn't functioning in the clients', but rather the industry's, best interests.

Mad Pride activists work hard to argue for peer-run groups, homes, shelters, warm lines, etc. And they meet fierce resistance from the establishment, even while the consistently provide scientifically based evidence that alternatives to the medical model are more effective and that psychtropics, mood elevators, anti-depressants, neuroleptics, etc. are: being over-prescribed, have life-shortening side effects, exacerbate suicidal ideations, are prescribed to children without testing for very mild "diagnoses," etc.

We need to destigmatize mental health issues. We need to understand that MENTAL health IS PHYSICAL HEALTH. We need to articulate that psychological abuse is just as detrimental as, and often more so than, physical assault. We need to clarify that people who are being traumatized, bullied and abused by verbal abuse are not "weak" or "whining," but are having our health put at risk by cruelty. Words and attitudes matter.

Resources:
Mind Freedom http://www.mindfreedom.org/

Psych Rights http://psychrights.org/index.htm

Occupy Psychiatry facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Me ... 3183684165

The Icarus Project -- peer support
http://theicarusproject.net/

I tend to be skeptical too, having been majorly misdiagnosed, drugged for years on full strength anti-depressants and anti-psychotics while being told that feeling like I am really female and knowing that I was born in the wrong body was was a manifestation of one of the primary functions of schizophrenia, when in fact I am a transsexual female and have transitioned to living as myself full time a year ago and see women nurses and doctors who prescribe me hormones my body is missing. I was drugged up heavily, at full strength, for years for something that later testing by a psychologist and psychiatrist (who interpreted the tests) later revealed was totally bogus: I never had schizophrenia. Later, a second opinion that involved testing from another set of qualified professionals revealed that what I had really had all along was Autism and something called DESNOS (which the next edition of the DSM may list as Complex PTSD) which term was used interchangeably with Chronic PTSD. In other words, I was sane, just badly damaged and I had middle of the road Autism. You know what? None of those drugs helped me one iota and in fact harmed me and prevented me from having pronounced feelings other than despair and depression: they stripped me of my humanity in the form of feelings and robbed me of my sexuality too. Later on in life I went through extensive cognitive behavioral therapy, for several years, by two very qualified therapists, and while that helped a bit it still didn''t really do much for me. The lessons I've learned the hard way dealing with a mental illness like Compex PTSD/DESNOS/Chronic PTSD is that this society loves to drug people up with stuff that makes them quiet and has eugenics properties: makes them infertile, reduces their sex drive, etc. Some of the same medications I was prescribed for my misdX are also prescribed for a variety of conditions, including PTSD. My understanding of this society is that medication is used to get people with serious problems to shut the fuck up, drool on themselves, impair their thinking, and make them compliant (which is what it did to me). I spent months on mental wards, largely because I wound up there due to gender dysphoria and being in a cult and was told I was crazy when I went to open my mouth. I have had one suicide attempt so far, and that took place 12 years ago. I've seen many psychiatrists over my life (at least 4 or 5 of them private practice for years on end) I've spent numerous time in a mental ward (6+ months total between 2 mental wards) so I have extensive experience with the mental health system. Mental health and ableist prejudice in this society is very subtle, and if you yell too loud people will say you're just not medicated enough or not medicated (so get some medication), or you need to go talk to a certified professional about your problems in life.

Ableism in this society means that able bodied people can talk about their problems in life, and that disabled people with mental illnesses (I am both disabled and a sufferer of severe, extensive, extreme trauma) cannot actually socially talk about their problems in life: we're supposed to goto a professional. The professionals typically put people on drugs as an alternative to actually getting them things like talk therapy (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or other sorts of talk therapy) because of the societal tendency to want mentally ill people to shut up. The people with the sickness are the main culture who want to drug people up as a way to get them to shut up. That said I absolutely do not look down on anyone who takes medication as I did so myself for years, and I know the societal pressures to do so and in many cases (anti-anxiety drugs like benzos, stuff to treat ritalin) it really can help a lot (I took ritalin as a child for many years). Some of the anti-deps and anti-psychotics (especially anti-psychotics) are tranquilizers of a sort having been first deployed in their typical shot based form (versus atypical today) as a way of tranquilizing mental patients-that was versus treating symptoms of specific illnesses based on correcting an alleged "chemical imbalance" (Noble Lie). I know well the politics of being diagnosed as something I never had (and then that reason being used to reenforce the diagnosis), when part of the reason was because I was actually alienated and isolated for being queer the three months I actually went to a highschool (self-schooled/homeschooled past 7th grade), and then later stating to psychologists and psychiatrists that I thought I was female and felt female and felt like I was in the wrong body and had known this since I was born. I think what happened in my case was that an undiagnosed middle of the road Autism Spectrum "Disorder" was misdX'ed as Schizophrenia/Schizoaffective, and then me being a transsexual woman was used as "proof" of being delusional within that framework. My psychiatrists meant well I am sure, they just got it wrong and they enabled bigotry against me for having a female gender identity without really realizing what it was they where doing or how very wrong they where, or how much severe trauma their well meaning, inadvertent, iatrogenic abuse and misdiagnosis was seriously causing me. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I just had to share

[simpleflower]

As someone who has Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Depression I can speak up for myself and state that I don't mind "suffering from". Some days I am suffering, and I am not afraid to say that. I think a lot of organizations like The Icarus Project are good to a point, but at the same time, some of the things that they do can potentially be harmful. If someone is okay with "embracing" and living with their mental illness in a carefree way... that is cool. But that is not for me. I cannot use my Anxiety to any sort of advantage. That's also the funny thing about mental illness, it doesn't effect people the same way. I have to function in a way where I can do my job, pay my bills, be a wife, and take care of my dog.

I may be mistaken, but some of what I have picked up from things like the Icraus project are so dismissive of medication and expect you to have a strong support system. Part of my mental illness is that I feel like I am a burden on my friends and family. I cannot dismiss medication and call people if I am having an anxiety attack. Shit... even thinking about calling people sometimes triggers an anxiety attack for me.

Again... this is my personal experience with my illness and why I prefer to try to go it on my own, and only bother people when absolutely necessary. I would like friends I can openly talk about struggles with.

In regards to having a difficult time in the atheist community... Why do so many atheist groups want to meet in restaurants!?!? I have a really hard time eating or even being in restaurants because of sensory overload. Sights, smells, sounds all at once are very overwhelming to me. It seems the active atheist groups near me have breakfast and dinner meetings, and I have not yet been able to bring myself to go to one. *sigh*

I agree about sensory overload, I get this alot too with meetings set up in restaraunts and I live in intense anxiety myself due to Complex PTSD/DESNOS/Chronic PTSD and having other sensory overload issues in addition to the C-PTSD/DESNOS due to being Autistic. I find that medications, over years and years of taking them, many kinds (all the major anti-deps and anti-psychotics) didn't really help me and where more a way to get me to shutup. I would love if this society was a society where, instead of forcing people to take medications through social pressure (which work for some, such as yourself, but didnt work for others such as myself), things like talk therapy (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which actually worked for me mildly for a time)) etc, where also encouraged, as well as just people doing more pro-social things with people who suffer from mental illness. I know I spent years alone in my apartment, drooling on myself, totally drugged up, because I didn't fit in within the religious cult I was in at the time, and, to me, that wasn't the kind of life I wanted to live and those medications I was giving actually only succeeded in taking away happy emotions: they didn't moderate the depression, the anxiety, the despair. When I complained that they didn't work I was made to feel guilty by my psychiatrist and told that a primary symptom of my illness was the idea they didn't work, the dosage was then increased, I would drool on myself more, the anxiety would get worse. So for some people they do work, for others they do not. I am glad that for those people that they do work they are able to be given a positive and crucial help in their lives, and I am happy for this.

[NicoleIntrovert]

I would love if this society was a society where, instead of forcing people to take medications through social pressure (which work for some, such as yourself, but didnt work for others such as myself), things like talk therapy (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which actually worked for me mildly for a time)) etc, where also encouraged, as well as just people doing more pro-social things with people who suffer from mental illness. I know I spent years alone in my apartment, drooling on myself, totally drugged up, because I didn't fit in within the religious cult I was in at the time, and, to me, that wasn't the kind of life I wanted to live and those medications I was giving actually only succeeded in taking away happy emotions: they didn't moderate the depression, the anxiety, the despair. When I complained that they didn't work I was made to feel guilty by my psychiatrist and told that a primary symptom of my illness was the idea they didn't work, the dosage was then increased, I would drool on myself more, the anxiety would get worse. So for some people they do work, for others they do not. I am glad that for those people that they do work they are able to be given a positive and crucial help in their lives, and I am happy for this.

I recognize that I am pretty lucky that Ativan works (for the most part) to help my anxiety attacks. At this point I wish I could go to talk therapy, but I cannot afford it. $10 a month for Ativan is doable, but $30 per appointment for talk therapy is a little more than I am comfortable spending right now. Things may be looking up for me monetarily soon, so I may try to go back.

I was on Seroquel about 11 or 12 years ago for a year's time because my anxiety spun so far out of control that it was suspected of having Psychotic Disorder-NOS. That was a horrible experience. I definitely understand sitting around drooling on yourself. That was how I felt at times on that drug.. and if I ran out, even worse. I had terrible withdrawal symptoms.

The cycle of feeling like shit because you have a mental illness... and then feeling like shit because of the mental illness is difficult to deal with.

[simpleflower]

I would love if this society was a society where, instead of forcing people to take medications through social pressure (which work for some, such as yourself, but didnt work for others such as myself), things like talk therapy (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which actually worked for me mildly for a time)) etc, where also encouraged, as well as just people doing more pro-social things with people who suffer from mental illness. I know I spent years alone in my apartment, drooling on myself, totally drugged up, because I didn't fit in within the religious cult I was in at the time, and, to me, that wasn't the kind of life I wanted to live and those medications I was giving actually only succeeded in taking away happy emotions: they didn't moderate the depression, the anxiety, the despair. When I complained that they didn't work I was made to feel guilty by my psychiatrist and told that a primary symptom of my illness was the idea they didn't work, the dosage was then increased, I would drool on myself more, the anxiety would get worse. So for some people they do work, for others they do not. I am glad that for those people that they do work they are able to be given a positive and crucial help in their lives, and I am happy for this.

I recognize that I am pretty lucky that Ativan works (for the most part) to help my anxiety attacks. At this point I wish I could go to talk therapy, but I cannot afford it. $10 a month for Ativan is doable, but $30 per appointment for talk therapy is a little more than I am comfortable spending right now. Things may be looking up for me monetarily soon, so I may try to go back.

I was on Seroquel about 11 or 12 years ago for a year's time because my anxiety spun so far out of control that it was suspected of having Psychotic Disorder-NOS. That was a horrible experience. I definitely understand sitting around drooling on yourself. That was how I felt at times on that drug.. and if I ran out, even worse. I had terrible withdrawal symptoms.

The cycle of feeling like shit because you have a mental illness... and then feeling like shit because of the mental illness is difficult to deal with.

That is very positive that the Ativan works for you and it makes me feel very happy for you, to know this. Relief is such a crucial thing to have. The talk therapy I got, from CBT therapists, was in a halfway house years ago, and it was intensive, and lasted 14 months. It was more like a partial hospitalization. It wasn't free, but was run by a charity so I didn't have to pay more than rent for the time I was there (a few hundred a month). Later on I found therapy for free with a social worker the CBT therapists recommended me to, I saw her for 8 months, and then went back to my CBT therapists in a more outpatient type mode on and off for a year. All of this stuff with the CBT therapists happened years after I escaped the religious cult I was in, and years after I got off of all medication (may of 2006). It was may of 2006 and before, all the way back to 1996, that I was seeing shrinks regularly and drugged up to one extent or another.

I was on full strength Abilify, Zyprexa, Risperodol, Geodone, and about 100mg of Seroquel for several periodsd of my life while I was also on full strength Abilify and Zyprexa. I spent about three years total on Seroquel, off and on, and many many years on Abilify and Zyprexa (not both, one or the other) complimented with Celexa (anti-depressant) and Celexa's older, less refined predecessor (the name escapes me). I was on the Seroquel 100mg while being on either full strength Zyprexa or full strength Abilify. I know what it's like to stare off for hours (alone in my room) into nowhere and drool on myself, being totally gone mentally. Nowadays, I do have heavy dissociation still, sometimes massive dissociation from time to time, and anxiety attacks that can get so severe I feel like I am being gassed, start seeing stars/honeycombs, and eventually make my way to the floor where I blackout/passout, with most of the attacks being milder ones where my heart races for a few hours, I get massive anxiety, and I just think I am going to die or get suicidal. The difference is that my symptoms do not respond to medication well, and respond to most medications poorly wherein the medications can even exacerbate the underlying condition, making it even worse than it was before. I do sometimes have an anti-anxiety medication I take, sometimes a couple of times a week at most, some weeks not at all, that is called hydroxyzine, and it's an anti-histamine. It can help somewhat, so that's positive for me, but most of the stuff I would take everday (what I think of as medication) never really did me any good and even this anti-histamine does good only half of the time, and mildly so.

I well know what it is for people to discriminate against me for "having schizophrenia" for years when I actually didn't have it at all...and then to be discriminated against AGAIN for the correct diagnoses of Autism Spectrum "Disorder" and Complex PTSD/DESNOS. The kind of trauma I have is what solitary confinement survivors or religious hermits get, it's really evil stuff. I hope one day that society won't look at people like me or you as weak and cause us to feel like worthless garbage ((and I've felt such many times over the years sadly) but instead be more socially supportive rather than take a "go talk to a shrink, take some pills, and leave me alone" attitude, coupled with an underlying, subtle discrimination where magically nothing we say counts anymore, nothing we feel matters anymore, and no body takes anything we say seriously while everyone treats us like children all the time. I still get that a lot, but it wasn't as strong of discrimination as back when I was misdX'ed. It's still strong though. I get people thinking I am lazy because I get disabilty (less than 9k of disability a year) when I'd probably just be dead if I didn't.

[apfergus]

Thank you Alyss and Nicole for sharing. I guess that's one really dark side of the mental health industry I've never been exposed to. My therapist always keeps me setting goals to work towards overcoming my anxiety or a particularly distressing situation and I've always been given final say in choices regarding my medication. If it made me feel awful, which several have, I stopped taking it. One brought on a manic episode which resulted in hospitalization, but aside from that nothing more than a bit of short lived nausea, dizziness, or nasal congestion. Ultimately though, I think I do best with medication and regular talk therapy. I don't think I'd be as well with one but not the other.

[ceepolk]

I think that examining the language around mental illness is a good idea, and I'd support that. Weighing in on the phrase "suffering from" a particular mental illness - I think there are times where suffering is exactly what's happening for a particular individual and in that case and circumstance, saying that one is suffering from a mental illness is appropriate.

But I would invite folks to have more than one story about how mental health is experienced. To always say that one suffers implies that ones life is always a misery and a sore trial, and that's not a constant, in my experience...but to always say that one is suffering from depression or anixiety or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or Post Traumatic Stress disorder is ableist.

Does one whose life is characterized by suffering never experience joy or satisfaction? sometimes it might feel that way, but it's a distortion of the sum of a person's lived experience. Someone with a mental illness is capable of having a good time. A good day. a good week. a good month. a good season. And when you characterize a person's experience as "suffering" it leaves the implication of constant malaise, and conversely invalidates the good - by calling it a delusion, or mania, or fraud (see, "I thought you were sick, but you posted a goofy photo of yourself at a party/convention/social event and you look like you're having fun, so this disability sob story is false and you're a fraud." and before you think, "what kind of person would say that?" realize that this is an "If I had a nickel" situation and anyone with an invisible disability can fill a bingo card with this and other banal fallacies.)

So to say that you suffer is completely valid, whether you're suffering currently, or from your perspective that you have suffered more often than you have lived, or tolerated, or thrived. Another person may say that they have survived mental illness - again, valid, because mental illnesses are health conditions that kill. But again, this description doesn't suit as the single story of experiencing mental illness. So too with embracing, experiencing, journeying, or whatever words they use to characterize their lives with mental illness.Because there is no single story, and there is no typical story that describes it.

My proposal to forum-goers, to use or ignore at will, is to use your own terms. Don't worry about finding "the right word for it." The way you describe your experience *is* the right description for it, subject to your own revision. And if you're talking to someone else about their experience (rather than a general discussion on the topic,) try not to paste your characterization of the experience of mental health onto their experience. Use the terms that they use. You're talking about their life, after all. They're the best authority on their life. Accept their expertise.

I could talk for pages about power relationships in the mental health system and how the system itself does harm to those trying to get help or find healing. I'm not joking in the slightest.

rriverstone, I also want to add that you have been knocking on my noggin ever since I started reading you on these forums, and I'm glad of it. You say things that I never could quite explain to others. I'm going to check out Mad Pride, because that's something that I have only barely heard of. I had another comment about your youtube video but I'm going to put it in the thread where you posted about it.

[simpleflower]

But I would invite folks to have more than one story about how mental health is experienced. To always say that one suffers implies that ones life is always a misery and a sore trial, and that's not a constant, in my experience...but to always say that one is suffering from depression or anixiety or schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or Post Traumatic Stress disorder is ableist.

I have to disagree here. There are some people who experience severe and persistant trauma for, say, being born in the wrong body, or for, say, going in and out of psychosis or depression. With enough variables such as this it can be accurate to describe someone as having a chronic experience of mental illness. There are surely always bright things to find in the most bleakest isolation (I would know), like say that of people in solitary confinement or other forms of extreme isolation, but I feel that if one thinks their experience in life in general to be permanently disabling and extremely traumatic, it is not ableist for someone to voice the obvious about their own experience. There is no human being that has ever lived that has not had good moments in their life, there are many on this forum living in severe isolation of a sort I doubt you can imagine who are struggling not to take their own lives due to various reasons on a day to day basis, having been suicidal for many years I imagine; I know I have been suicidal daily for 14 and a half years, since I was 16 years old, and no medication relieved that or changed that. I do not think characterizing people who have experienced a constant sense of trauma since they where born as being ableist is anything other than a rank blaming the victim.

There are always good things to find in life, but for people to tell those who are disabled to find them, and that, furthermore if they suggest they are not finding them that THEY are in fact ableist, is itself the very ableism you decry, the very description of others' narratives you condemn. In other words, you are a hypocrite.

My proposal to forum-goers, to use or ignore at will, is to use your own terms. Don't worry about finding "the right word for it." The way you describe your experience *is* the right description for it, subject to your own revision. And if you're talking to someone else about their experience (rather than a general discussion on the topic,) try not to paste your characterization of the experience of mental health onto their experience. Use the terms that they use. You're talking about their life, after all. They're the best authority on their life. Accept their expertise.

It seems you are sorely in need of your own advice.

[simpleflower]

Thank you Alyss and Nicole for sharing. I guess that's one really dark side of the mental health industry I've never been exposed to. My therapist always keeps me setting goals to work towards overcoming my anxiety or a particularly distressing situation and I've always been given final say in choices regarding my medication. If it made me feel awful, which several have, I stopped taking it. One brought on a manic episode which resulted in hospitalization, but aside from that nothing more than a bit of short lived nausea, dizziness, or nasal congestion. Ultimately though, I think I do best with medication and regular talk therapy. I don't think I'd be as well with one but not the other.

My therapists never gave me say in my medication when I was misdX'ed, and in fact the last private practice one I had seen with regularity (in the summer of 2006) said he thought it would be "unethical" to help me taper off of full strength anti-psychotics and anti-depressants I was on at the time which made me have a constant feeling of severe nauseous vertigo for 3+ months, and I complained several times to him of this. Eventually I came off of them myself. Some of these psychiatrists see you as an animal with no rights if you are dXed with something like Schizophrenia (which I was for years and it later turned out to be false). I had no idea I had no right to not take medication until I was told so by a Roman Catholic Priest; none of my psychiatrists or any on the wards ever suggested I had any right to refuse medication. It makes me glad to hear your perspective on this, happy to know this was the experience that you had. The system can work, to be sure. :+)

[Grimalkin]

I'm going to echo those in here saying that the mental health treatment systems can be majorly, majorly fucked up.

I've had nothing but bad experiences with them. I've had depression (as it was diagnosed) for... 6 years now, I believe. When I was 14, I nearly attempted suicide over Christmas break and upon returning to school, got a friend to take me to the school's counselor. Right there is where a whole boatload o' terrible started. I talked to the counselor for a while, got some sort of referral to the hospital, and the counselor talked to my mother. She apparently decided my story wasn't sensational enough, and turned my saying "Sometimes I just want to sleep all day" to "I want to go to sleep and never wake up." Now this really isn't a reflection of mental health treatment in general, but it was a bit of a shit-cherry on top.

Upon going to the hospital, I was asked many questions- One of which was if I was involved with the "occult", so there's a fun reality of the industry right there (later on, I also heard a girl asked if she believed in a higher power), and one that could actually be addressed by Atheism+ in particular, but I digress.

Anyways, I went to an in-patient hospital. It was, with no hyperbole, the worst experience of my life. This may be specific to the fact that I was in a teenage/children's ward, but we were essentially treated subhuman at best and criminal at worst. There was also a no-hugging rule, apparently because they thought hugs interfered with treatment. Honestly, no amount of research could lead me to believe that. There were also rules against exchanging contact information with the people you met in the hospital (I.E. the people who kept you alive, essentially), because again, we were criminals. We also all had eating disorders and were forced to eat massive quantities of food or face punishment. Later on a group of us realized that many of the rights promised to us by a little packet handed out to us were being ignored, and for asking about this we were threatened with solitary confinement. I left the hospital without being helped, though they did give me something along the lines of PTSD.

After the hospital I switched to seeing a psychologist weekly. I told him I wanted to try cognitive behavioral therapy- I was very iffy about medication- and he agreed to... and then began pushing meds like his life depended on it. I refused them because I wanted to try talk therapy first. And I did, while trying to ignore his insistence that I needed medication. And talk therapy actually really felt like it was helping. And yet, he kept insisting on pills, and I kept trying to tell him that I felt that my problems were, at least partially, not due to biology, but traumatic experiences. I told him I was gay and that that added to my depression, he shrugged it off. I told him that I had been sexually abused around when my depression began, he decided that it didn't traumatize me. He eventually got me to take pills, and lo and behold, a mere two days later I contemplated suicide seriously for the first time in quite a while (A note- I know that part of the reason that antidepressants make patients commit suicide more in the beginning is because they take away the apathy before the depression, but in this case I actually felt worse) and spent the next week exhausted. I got off the pills, and my psychologist essentially dropped me as a patient.

Anyways, fast forward through a shit-tastic summer and two days into my sophomore year I had a nervous breakdown. After that point I switched to an online school. It kept me from being forced to interact with people 5 days a week (a lot of my depression/anxiety/whatever I have manifests as social anxiety, and hell, these are teenagers I'm talking about), made it so that when my depression acted up I could take a while off without hurting anything, and overall helped me a fuck-ton. And it's essentially the only thing I can do at this point for my depression. I would like to try talk therapy again, and after a while I would even try medicine again, but for that I would need a different psychologist and while my mom is still in charge of my health, I can't get a different one (She doesn't believe that one therapist will have different methods than another).

So, you know, that's all stuff to keep in mind. The mental health treatment industry is not all peaches and cream, and even when it is, those opportunities are not available to everyone. Telling people that they need to see a psychologist or join a support group to help them is, well... I don't know what to call it. Classist in some ways- treatment is expensive- though I don't have a word for what it is besides that, as much as I feel it falls under some -ist. Idealist though, definitely. There are people like me, whose medical decisions are made by someone other than them, there are people who don't have access to treatment for financial and travel reasons, and there are people who just plain don't trust the mental healthy industry, and for good reason.

On to the main topic, if you want to be inclusive to people with mental health issues, it's really the same as being inclusive to anyone: Be willing to include them, and listen to them.

More specifically, things like greeting those who mention mental health with suggestions to see professionals can be really problematic, at least in my opinion. We've all heard it, and we all know it (if we agree with it), and having it suggested can come off as little, well... condescending. That's ignoring how bad it can be as advice, as it ignores how harmful treatment can be. It also ignores how insanely difficult receiving professional treatment can be. That's my biggest individual issue, though one other thing that I've heard from others include calling those with mental health issues "brave" and such. Casting doubt on someone's mental health status- in either direction- is also an issue, particularly getting into things like "have you been diagnosed?" Getting a diagnosis is not something everyone can do, and not always accurate.

When gathering in public, you need to treat people with mental health issues the same way you would someone with a physical disability. They might act/look/speak differently than you, but you should treat them the exact same as you would anyone else.

I personally have social anxiety issues that pair with paranoia issues to make me overly perceptive of social cues and overly worried about how to act, what to say, etc. This usually manifests as me actively trying to be sociable (resulting in sometimes trying too hard ), talking quickly, stuttering over my words, and things like that if I'm talking to someone I don't know or am otherwise nervous. This does make it a little harder to participate in groups and meetups in meatspace due to general anxiety over being in public, but the only real ways to make groups more accessible to people like me is to just, well.. don't be a dick, really. Though more specifically, if someone is stuttering or talking quickly or anything of the sort, don't try to correct them. Yes, saying "like" and "uh" and "y'know" in between words/sentences is a pretty typical thing to mock, particularly because of the "stereotypical teenage girl by using like every other word" joke-thing, but sometimes, uh, it's like, um, something that someone, y'know, does because they like, they have issues, um, they have nervous issues. It should also be noted that it probably will not be taken kindly if you ask someone speaking strangely if they have "nervous issues".

Though as I was writing this I thought of something that would REALLY make groups more welcome to people with mental health issues; speakers with mental health issues. Particularly social anxiety. It's the same as women speakers, people of color speakers, disabled speakers... it gets out the message that you're welcome. And in particular would like to see speakers who have issues speaking, having stutters, lisps, what have you, because I've never seen that. I'm actually really lucky, in that I only have trouble speaking normally if I'm really excited, really mad, or nervous. Otherwise I'm fine, and actually quite enjoy and am relatively good at public speaking and performing. It would be interesting to see speakers that are the same.

[ceepolk]

Alyss, I'm sorry. When I was talking about how someone frames the general experience of mental illness I was trying to speak generally, and not addressed to anyone in particular. But I didn't succeed, and I'm guessing that something that I said came off as either invalidating to you or pointed in your direction. That wasn't my intention, and I don't want to repeat that mistake...but I'm not sure exactly where I put my foot in it. I hope that I do figure out where I misspoke. I really didn't want to leave an impression that I was speaking to anyone's personal experience and I certainly didn't want anyone feeling the need to defend themselves.

You may disagree with me, but I agree with you. There *are* people who experience severe and persistent trauma, and it doesn't really get better for a lot of reasons, and those reasons aren't their fault. And I'm not even talking about the added joy of even more stress trying to navigate through a system that often hurts more than it helps, and to persist in trying to get that help takes a lot of endurance. I had hoped that when I said that if your current experience is of suffering or if you've had more suffering in the sum of your life than you have thrived that I was making it clear that you are the one who gets to decide what verb best fits your experience. I was once one of those people, solidly and definitely. I had suffered far, far more than I had thrived, and that was the word for it. Even looking back at the total of my life, suffering outweighs thriving by a big margin.

But even when I was in a lifetime of suffering, I had fun. I had good days. I had fond memories. And those things were often examined by other people, and held up as proof that there wasn't actually anything wrong with me. And that's what I was pointing at - the idea that if you have a mental illness, that you are suffering from it, and that this suffering is constant, and if it isn't, then you're not *really* suffering. That's one part of what I was saying was ableist - that If you're mentally ill, you must suffer constantly. That's bullshit. But I've heard it over and over again, directed at me, and directed at people who weren't there to hear it. Have you ever heard someone you know doing that? I remember one word for word, even though I heard it over twenty years ago.

"She says she's depressed, but I saw her dressed up to go to the bar night before last, oh boo hoo, yeah she's depressed all right. Funny how it's only a problem when it's time to get up in the morning and go get a job."

The woman who said it wasn't talking about me. The woman who said it was including me in the circle of those denouncing the absent woman for being a fraud, inviting me to join in the shaming of another, and those words rang in my ears, a perfect internal weapon. It could stab when I couldn't even get out of bed, and it could stab when I was turning out excellent technical work, and it could stab while I was schmoozing at industry driven parties.

The other part of what I was saying is a weird inverse: if you have a mental illness, then suffering is all you're capable of. So on one hand you're a liar and a fraud. On the other, you're incapable and incompetent and you aren't even honestly happy, you're just manic or hypomanic or indulging in magical thinking and everything you do and everything you are is bounded by your mental illness. Looking back, I didn't really separate those two concepts out all that well.

I have suffered for a very long time. Far longer than I have lived feeling like I was safe. I never felt I was safe. I didn't feel safe until recently. Recently, I've gotten some relief. I've fought against the system for decades, and I finally got some real help. I'm doing enough better that I can't say that I currently suffer from mental illness, even though it hasn't endured for even five percent of my lifespan. I'd say that I'm living with mental illness, and I'm doing a lot of work to make my life with mental illness better...But ask me again in October, and my answer will be different, and I need *all* of my characterizations for all the variance I experience with my mental illness.

The seasonal tuning that rules my general mood is the most obvious one at this time. a few years ago it would have been all the things that I did in response to persistent anxiety, repeated panic attacks, and the physical price of that stress. A few years before that it would be everything that I did in response to psychological, financial, and sexual abuse. A few years before that, the effects of my obsessional eating. And back, and back, and back to the little kid who hid in spaces that were surely too small even for a child, trying to escape the illogical, terrifying world that is a toddler with an adult addict abusing and terrorizing the rest of the family.

It's not that I've succeed in "curing" anxiety or panic attacks or disordered eating or anything else. They're all still there, all working side by side. It's just that one facet or another was dominant over the others, or sometimes made the focus by others, diagnosed and gazed upon and pathologized. But right now, I am safe, and I have reason to believe that I will continue to be safe for years to come...and that's enormous.

Right now the most serious problem I face is the seasonal mood disorder. But it doesn't erase the other things that won't fit into a neat little checklist in a diagnostic manual. And that's not to say that it will continue to be the most serious problem for the rest of my life.

I need my own terms for my experience. And if I'm going to assume that my need for my own terms is valid, then I'm comfortable with assuming that everyone needs their own terms for their experience. That might be difficult for people who want things to be simple, universal, and constant in order to grant them validity, but so what?

[simpleflower]

ceepolk, now that you explained it I can see you just came across the wrong way. Thank you for explaining :+)

I need my own terms for my experience. And if I'm going to assume that my need for my own terms is valid, then I'm comfortable with assuming that everyone needs their own terms for their experience. That might be difficult for people who want things to be simple, universal, and constant in order to grant them validity, but so what?

I very much agree with this, it just sounded like you where blaming disabled people for having chronic conditions, also I do agree with the points you made above that, especially about people making fun of the woman with depression. I have been the recipient of such things many times now, and it is extremely frustrating. I also want to reiterate that I agree very much so with the sentiment you expressed above.

It's not that I've succeed in "curing" anxiety or panic attacks or disordered eating or anything else. They're all still there, all working side by side. It's just that one facet or another was dominant over the others, or sometimes made the focus by others, diagnosed and gazed upon and pathologized. But right now, I am safe, and I have reason to believe that I will continue to be safe for years to come...and that's enormous.

Right now the most serious problem I face is the seasonal mood disorder. But it doesn't erase the other things that won't fit into a neat little checklist in a diagnostic manual. And that's not to say that it will continue to be the most serious problem for the rest of my life.

Also, hugs to you regarding your mood disorder/depression. I was told I had major depression (and medicated unsuccessfully for it) but that didn't show up on later testing and, in my experience most of my depression was a result of my C-PTSD and it would come and go like the tide. Depression really sucks, I think I still deal with it based on the old definition the shrinks used, it's just the medication never changed it and it comes and goes.

[ceepolk]

Oh good! I'm glad. I enjoy writing in forums but I have two flaws that I try to handle: the first is that I'm a terrible typist. I often miss capitalizing and if I commit a typographical error that is a technically correct word, I won't notice...well, until my words are in print. Then it's just mortifying. I've gotten better at laughing when that happens.

The other is that I'll seriously screw up on explaining thoroughly what I mean and lose everybody in my haste to write it all and fast. a hot forum topic is my weakness. If a lot of people are talking it feels urgent to me to reply while that part of the thread is still current and I won't notice that my words have the opposite effect. Which can also be mortifying!

Depression *does* suck. And I don't know what sucks worse: having a situational depression that people treat as clinical, so they throw the latest drug on it and tell you to shut up about trivia (because "I'm teetering on the edge of homelessness and my boss will fire me with a bad recommendation if I don't stay late after everyone is gone and have sex with him, my dad went on a rock rampage and threatened to throw me out while I was crumpled on the ground crying from the kick he delivered to my abdomen, a blow I deserved because the milk was fusty and I didn't bring fresh home and the fact that I didn't know that was irrelevant because honestly he didn't kick me in the stomach because of milk but because he needed to terrify me in order to feel secure" is trivia to these assholes)

Or clearing away a lot of the situations, and then falling deep into it in spite of -everything.- last winter was really bad for me and I spent a lot of time feeling like I'd failed, that I'd been offered all this help and support and I have it good now so all that effort was useless and I have a stupid ungrateful brain that just won't be right...and in depression like this, I can convince myself of the most awful things, and no one, no one can talk me out of it - because I believe all these terrible, self-loathing things with a frightening conviction, and honestly? The medication I take doesn't feel like it even makes a dent.

this makes me a massive pain in the ass and a horror to be around, but if you need to get away from me that might be when I take the opportunity to take my own life because it's been a complete failure. Oh I don't suffer from internal, self-directed ableism. Oh, nooo. *whistles* It's hard to remember exactly what it felt like, but frankly, the coming autumn scares the crap out of me. And I don't think I'll try to tough it out like I did last year - when things get really bad, I'll tell my psychiatrist, and my therapist, and the mental health social workers who work in my building, and my peer group facilitators. The people I didn't tell last year, because I'd had all this support and I went and got depressed anyway so I let them all down and all their hard work was wasted. It's just mind-boggling, remembering the things I told myself when depressed. how vicious, how untrue and illogical it is, and how difficult it was to doubt.

And I want to hug you. I'm so glad that you know the truth and those doctors who told you that you were delusional were so wrong. It makes me so damn mad when I think about how blasted -typical- it is that doctors wind up carving us up even more when we go for help, how they paste their own views on people who come to them and cause even more damage because they're taught to disregard what the "patient" thinks about their situation, and then they go ahead and push their patients into adopting their view on threat of imprisonment, and they'd rather kill someone than question themselves. I hate the fact that the default setting for psychiatrist seems to be authoritarian asshole. I hate the fact that it took thirty years to finally work with a psychiatrist I can trust, and who was willing to constantly be there while I decided that I could trust him, even when i disappeared for a year, and accepted that I had to decide for myself that I could trust him because he'd consistently proven himself to be trustworthy. And I can only say that I will come out and tell people how bad my depression is this winter because my psychiatrist won't incarcerate me. He's proven this. The day I say, "I think I'm ready to go home," he'll start arranging my discharge. But I'm lucky, I know it. I've been incarcerated before. I've spent years institutionalized at a doctor's whim, and kept there because disagreeing with his opinion was a serious symptom of my mental disorders. Ain't it grand?

but it shouldn't have taken this long to become one of the lucky ones, dammit. It shouldn't be this *rare.* The whole system is wrong. and too many doctors refuse to see how damaging the system is, or want the system to stay in place because it discourages people who try to get help.

[simpleflower]

And I want to hug you. I'm so glad that you know the truth and those doctors who told you that you were delusional were so wrong.
.

I would hug you if I could, physically, definitely. Thank you so much for saying this. It's a tiny shadow of what this would feel like in the real world, but I can hug you here *hugs.

And yes the mental health system in this country is horrible in many ways, it's so much darkness. There are days when I am convinced I am evil and totally worthless, and I am sure there will be many more in this isolation. I, personally, persevere and dissociate until society changes: the isolation will not change until I find myself in a society of people that wants to help me change it and accepts responsibility for doing that. I have accepted responsibility for doing that fully, tried to change it, and failed so many times I have lost count. Then I realized how I had internalized the ableist dogma that it was my responsibility to make society stop hating women like me, that it was my responsibility to overcome my disability, that it was my responsibility to fit in with white culture and thus stop being prejudiced for "being" african american (and I am not, I am actually cajun/irish i.e caucasian but I look african-american to many), that it was my responsibility to get myself out of poverty, that it was my responsibility to better myself as a transperson within prostitution or pornography, that it was my responsibility to behave as Neurotypicals do and acknowledge my Autism to be this evil disorder that gets inflicted on poor Neurotypicals parents and that poor Neurotypicals shouldn''t have to accomodate in the real world. I was asked to do all these things and then I found, after trying many times, that none of them where possible for me. I am weak and helpless, I am the weak. I am powerless, and if I lie to myself and pretend I can and get back on that ableist treadmill, then I just continue to internally abuse myself for things I do not have the power to change.

So I dissociate until others change. I dissociate for hours, in my bed, in my room, staring off onto my monitor, after anxiety attacks mostly, many times to try and prevent them. There is nothing I can do but disconnect. My responsibility is to massively dissociate, zone out, disconnect, have no social reality outside of my room and whatever I do to get food and medicine (very rarely). This society does not want me around, and has not for a long time now, and my mind is gone anyway, unable to understand the real world.

[ceepolk]

I, personally, persevere and dissociate until society changes: the isolation will not change until I find myself in a society of people that wants to help me change it and accepts responsibility for doing that.

YES. Yes, dammit.

And dissociating? I've done that too. persevere, dissociate, escape, and wait it out. There have been times when that was the only thing that I could do. I'm also constantly hungry for mental focus, which is apparently a very common response among people who've been in sustained and complex traumatic situations. I've spent my days constantly seeking a way to engage my brain in diversions, entertainment, tasks, because the most nightmarish thing is what happens when there is nothing to read, nothing to write on, nothing to make, nothing to play, nothing to watch. I cannot abide it at all. I will panic. My mood will plummet. I will despair. And so I divert myself, take the focus away from myself. I spend a lot of my life in my mind palace, and ignore the cues that I need to eat or drink or rest or move around.

And going to sleep. Going to -sleep.- This is why I take medication, honestly. I don't think my meds make me less depressed. I only want them for the sleep inducing stone they deliver. I take the pills and they drag me into unconsciousness. the episode of television plays on while I sleep. the book tumbles out of my hand. because I don't dare just close my eyes and do nothing and "relax" while waiting to drift off. if I don't get dragged under by chemicals or exhaustion, I ain't going and that's it. (which is why I'm still posting at this hour.)

A lot of the time, I'm simply waiting. I'm waiting for the depression to lift, I'm waiting until my appointment or my group or a social engagement in the smaller focus, but the thing I'm waiting for is for more people to wake up to how sincerely fucked up this culture is and to quit buying into it.

Because while talking and deconstructing the beliefs I have about the world and the attitudes of society helps me personally, I run into people who can't see the water that surrounds them. They just don't notice how damn crazy-making the world is, and it's exhausting to try and point it out. it's exhausting to run into the -isms that people don't even recognize. I live alone, no roommates, and I rarely let anyone into my apartment. most people who know me know me via correspondence. when my phone rings, it's a professional on the line. friends IM or tweet. I can count the number of friends who have my telephone number on one hand.

There's the isolation conflict - isolation is a symptom of mental illness that perpetuates a vicious cycle that intensifies mental illness, it's said. but isolation is also why I am safe. because yes, somehow it's my responsibility to change society and somehow convince the world to like me, and oh screw that.

[simpleflower]

I, personally, persevere and dissociate until society changes: the isolation will not change until I find myself in a society of people that wants to help me change it and accepts responsibility for doing that.

YES. Yes, dammit.

And dissociating? I've done that too. persevere, dissociate, escape, and wait it out. There have been times when that was the only thing that I could do. I'm also constantly hungry for mental focus, which is apparently a very common response among people who've been in sustained and complex traumatic situations. I've spent my days constantly seeking a way to engage my brain in diversions, entertainment, tasks, because the most nightmarish thing is what happens when there is nothing to read, nothing to write on, nothing to make, nothing to play, nothing to watch. I cannot abide it at all. I will panic. My mood will plummet. I will despair. And so I divert myself, take the focus away from myself. I spend a lot of my life in my mind palace, and ignore the cues that I need to eat or drink or rest or move around.

And going to sleep. Going to -sleep.- This is why I take medication, honestly. I don't think my meds make me less depressed. I only want them for the sleep inducing stone they deliver. I take the pills and they drag me into unconsciousness. the episode of television plays on while I sleep. the book tumbles out of my hand. because I don't dare just close my eyes and do nothing and "relax" while waiting to drift off. if I don't get dragged under by chemicals or exhaustion, I ain't going and that's it. (which is why I'm still posting at this hour.)

A lot of the time, I'm simply waiting. I'm waiting for the depression to lift, I'm waiting until my appointment or my group or a social engagement in the smaller focus, but the thing I'm waiting for is for more people to wake up to how sincerely fucked up this culture is and to quit buying into it.

Because while talking and deconstructing the beliefs I have about the world and the attitudes of society helps me personally, I run into people who can't see the water that surrounds them. They just don't notice how damn crazy-making the world is, and it's exhausting to try and point it out. it's exhausting to run into the -isms that people don't even recognize. I live alone, no roommates, and I rarely let anyone into my apartment. most people who know me know me via correspondence. when my phone rings, it's a professional on the line. friends IM or tweet. I can count the number of friends who have my telephone number on one hand.

There's the isolation conflict - isolation is a symptom of mental illness that perpetuates a vicious cycle that intensifies mental illness, it's said. but isolation is also why I am safe. because yes, somehow it's my responsibility to change society and somehow convince the world to like me, and oh screw that.

I have not had a single real life friend in four years, and the last one I thought I had date raped me a year and a half ago over a "friendship" (he was an acquaintance as I explain at the end of this post) that lasted two years where this person was the only real life "friend" I actually had; turns out he wasn't actually a friend obviously, just someone trying to take advantage of me, which he did in a very wrong way for which I had no legal recourse to go after him for. I sympathize with not having friends, as I literally haven't had a real life friend in years. Acquaintances, sure I've had those off and on over the years, maybe I would see them once a month, maybe twice or more, but an actual friend, well, no. And this guy who violated me wasn't a friend as I explain at the end of this post where I edited an explanation. Four years, no real life friends.

I've lived in this severe isolation with no real life friends, for years now. I have learned to massively dissociate to cope. This last winter and the winter before it I went three+ months at one point each with no human contact (or animal) whatsoever at all (absolutely none), and I have suffered many periods over the last few years where I will go months and months (summer and winter) where the only physical contact I had was a slight brush of the hand from the cashier as she gave me my grocery bags. The last two winters before that I went 2+ months each winter with no human physical contact (or animal), and suffered similar isolation where I would literally go months at times where the only physical contact I would have would be the brush of a hand from a cashier handing me groceries I needed to eat. The isolation I just described is akin to the sort encountered by desert hermits and anchoress's like Julian of Norhich: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_of_Norwich. Sometimes I crave human contact, physical contact, so very badly it forces me back into dissociation again, for hours, because I cannot deal with the feeling of being alone, no one to hug me, no one to hold me, no one to visit me. For the last 4 years, 3 years and two months of that was spent living in a large attic closet the likes of which it was found out later where totally illegal for my landylady to rent to me; she later moved me to a room downstairs after the city hall forced her to evict two of her tenants, me and another, from the attic closets she was illegally renting us. You can see the blue slanted wall in the background, in the pictures of me here:

http://imgur.com/a/8dxuj

Some where taken in my new room (the one with the radiator) and some where taken in my old attic closet room (with the blue slanted wall). I lived in that blue slanted wall attic closet room from Nov 2nd 2008 until Dec 20th 2011, at which point I moved into the room with the radiator in it (an actual tenant room vs an attic closet). My experience living in that attic closet in the isolation I described in the above sentence, has to be clarified in the context that I had not seen nor heard from my family in years and did not have an immediate family nor extended family effectively, and they later disowned me due to bigotry in very early january of this year; my dad alone came up here and lectured me in this isolation about how I was going to hell for living in sin, for hours, and told me he would have killed me when I was little if mom hadn't stopped him ; a direct threat to me and a reference to the fact he beat me relentlessly as a child due to me trying to behave as a little girl. Five years I had not seen nor had access to them and could not because they where in a religious cult when I left them, and I had serious reason to be afraid of that cult at that time, and after my dad visited me he told me I could never visit my immediate family again, and they all effectively disowned me so I now have no family nor extended family, but hey, its not like I had seen or heard from any of them in years anyway. In all of the last four years, I have not had one real life friend. I had a couple of online relationships where someone came and visited me for like a week and then went back home, but those relationships (one bigendered girl, and one transwoman) broke down and a one week visit from someone you are in a cyber relationship with as a lover is not a flesh and blood friend who you knew first in the real world who visits you. No friends, none. I had two people I had some trysts with, one a cisgirl and one a cisguy, in the real world, but they where acquaintances and I found out they both where using me, plus they where never friends before or after, just short time lovers: the cisgirl was dating multiple people and I found this out a couple of weeks after starting to date her and cut her out of my life, and the cisguy just goes from girl to girl to girl, and associated with me for a few months off and on as an acquaintance after spending time with me several times throughout november and december in a tryst, and then stopped responding three months from the first day I ever met him (stopped responding on facebook). So I've had lovers who where acquaintances or people I was in cyber relationships with but didn't know in the real world who came to visit me once for like a week, but a friend? None.

What does this mean for my mind? It means I dissociate very well, because I am still alive. What is also very sad is that, I experienced intense isolation before I ever left that religious cult my family was in, and even isolation within the cult due to having views that where not approved of and for other reasons (mainly ableist prejudice within the cult).

I am not sure why my mind continues to deal with reality rather than exiting it, but the isolation is extremely severe. To be honest, come to think of it, the last friend I had was at the halfway house I left in Sept 2008. So yes, that's four years, almost exactly actually. To be honest the guy that I knew a year and a half ago, the guy that date raped me, cannot be called my friend because he was more of an acquaintance I saw from time to time: a friend is someone who is there for you when times are bad, when you struggle, who visits you and checks up on you. He was none of those things. He was just an acquaintance I saw/was around more than other people. Oh, and he raped me too. Supposedly friends don't do that, but the reality is that some turn on people and actually do. He was just an acquaintance though from the beginning.

[surreptitious57]

I have obsessive compulsive disorder and general anxiety though both are unmedicated and manageable. i find that because of these I have sympathy for others who may also suffer from mental ill health even if their disorders are not the same as mine or are, but are more severe. I find it easy to communicate online but tend to avoid humans in real life. This is not necessarily a deliberate decision on my part but just circumstance, but nevertheless. I do not worry about being alone or isolated as it is my natural habitat and most of the time, I am fine. I try to come to terms with what I am and an afraid that society will judge me. That sometimes makes me paranoid. I do not have a high opinion of myself and am not educated enough to be on rational forums like this one. I try to learn as much as I can but I only have a small brain. I am alright in public surroundings as long as I am alone. I have started to dislike having to talk too much but sometimes cannot help myself. I do not belong and have no problem with death but with dying. I know my value is zero but while I am here might as well do something useful.