(TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

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(TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby Steersman » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:36 pm

Considering that, according to Wikipedia (1), the incidence of reported rape and sexual assault (in the US) is something like 200,000 cases per year, and the rather fractious and acrimonious debates in the last while on the topic, I was wondering whether there might be a technological solution or method that might at least reduce that number. While it is somewhat moot whether there is a market and use for such a product, it seems to me – particularly given the apparently large amounts of fear if not paranoia about rape and false accusations thereof, and the somewhat questionable prevalence of “hook-up culture” (2) – that there might well be such a market. Which is entirely dependent, of course, on whether such a product is technically feasible.

And, more specifically, that product is conjectured to be some sort of iPhone App that would record intimate encounters, encrypt them, and then upload them to a secure server. Which could then be decrypted as evidence should there be any accusations of rape or even false ones thereof. Now obviously most people aren’t going to be particularly keen about recording their sexual activities if there’s any possibility that they could be made available for general viewing. But that seems easily dealt with simply by encrypting them such that it takes two of three subkeys to unlock them – 2 held by the participants, a unique one per individual encounter held by the justice system that could be released only on court order.

Which then raises several technical questions, one of which is, as Jason Thibeault put it (3), “I can't think of any good schema by which two of three keys could be used to unlock an encrypted file.” However, Wikipedia describes just such a schema here (4) in the article “Secret sharing”. Another technical problem discussed was the amount of storage space required to record both audio and video, as well as where it would reside. While, as he pointed out “recording an hour of audio at 8khz mono bitrate … still took ~100 megs”, a number of compression schemes could reduce that to one quarter or one tenth. In addition, while most cameras apparently capture at 30 frames a second, one would think that 5 frames a second would be more than sufficient to qualify as evidence of most crimes. As for storage, the iPhone at least has the iCloud feature (5) whereby data can apparently be stored “on-the-fly” externally where it wouldn’t be subject to destruction by any criminal.

And, finally, it appears others have conceived of or implemented similar technological solutions, such as this (6) “Me Against Rape” Android App for example, although it suffers from some notable limitations, or these (7) surveillance Apps similar to “Nanny-Cams”, although they may use separate cameras.

So, given that it appears that such a product is technically feasible, and well within the budget of many – although that depends somewhat on the availability, cost, and technical capabilities of either iPhones or their clones – do you think that there is a market for such a product, that many people would use it?

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1) “_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States”;
2) “_http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithonthecouch/2013/08/is-the-hook-up-culture-over-hyped-absolultely-not-study-shows/”;
3) Personal communication, Jason Thibeault
4) “_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_sharing”;
5) “_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICloud”;
6) “_http://says.com/in/tech/3-youths-develop-me-against-rape-android-app-for-womens-safety”;
7) “_http://iphoneapplicationlist.com/apps/”;
Last edited by SubMor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Let's just make this thread title a bit more accurate, shall we?
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby AndyTheNerd » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:50 pm

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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby Sun Countess » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:03 pm

You have got to be freaking kidding me.
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby Steersman » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:14 pm

AndyTheNerd wrote:http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/3/3/4/9/9/3/weapons-grade-facepalm-106847413941.jpeg

Nice image - I'll have to keep it.

However, I suppose that is what you think qualifies as a cogent and detailed rebuttal or critique? Considering the ubiquity of surveillance cameras and other methods of reducing the incidence of other crimes such as robbery and theft, I would think that similar methods might have some utility in this case as well.
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby Steersman » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:28 pm

Sun Countess wrote:You have got to be freaking kidding me.

Does it look like it? You might want to take a look at this woman’s story (1), a snippet from which follows, and ask yourself whether she might have benefited from such a product:

Anni wrote:Last year, I was raped. I met a man, I invited him home for sex, and when we were in my room he quickly overpowered me and... It was rape, and it was treated as rape, and I received therapy for rape. ….

Now, I recognize that he was the one who chose to commit a violent sexual act, but I also recognize that, hey, if you invite strange men into your bedroom you risk sexual violence against yourself. I was a very easy target, and I got hurt. ….

Regardless of how well I'm doing, I don't think it's unreasonable of me or "victim shaming" to accept that I had a hand in what happened to me. I don't blame myself or absolve my rapist, but I do accept personal responsibility for my own actions; when did that become a bad thing? ….


Just because you apparently can’t conceive of circumstances in which it might have some value is not any reason to think that everyone else is similarly limited.

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1) “_http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130613080657AAur5O3”;
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby AlexSeanchai » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:47 pm

So how would your idea have helped Anni? Because the only thing I can see that would have helped Anni is for her rapist not to have raped her, and the only thing I can see that would help her after the fact is a firm insistence that the only thing that would have prevented somebody being raped that night is her rapist choosing not to rape anyone.
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby Steersman » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:00 pm

EllieMurasaki wrote:So how would your idea have helped Anni? Because the only thing I can see that would have helped Anni is for her rapist not to have raped her, and the only thing I can see that would help her after the fact is a firm insistence that the only thing that would have prevented somebody being raped that night is her rapist choosing not to rape anyone.

A reasonable comment and question – for a notable change. And to answer it, I should maybe clarify a few of the details of the potential application. For starters, it seems that according to the “Nanny-Cam” Wikipedia article, it is illegal to be recording someone without their authorization. And in Anni’s case she would have told her “date” that she was going to record and that he could provide a subkey which would prevent her from showing it around to her friends for some entertainment. In which case he would say either yea or nay. In the former case the evidence would be available to prove a charge of rape if not stupidity on the part of the rapist; in the latter case he wouldn’t have gotten in the door so that the rape wouldn’t have happened in the first place.

As for “firm insistence”, I wonder how effective you really think that is in preventing crooks from stealing your car or breaking into your home when you’re not there.
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby AlexSeanchai » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:20 pm

You're proposing something so utterly absurd that it shouldn't be surprising that nobody's taking it seriously.

You honestly think the rape wouldn't have happened? You don't think that he would have gone back to the bar and found someone else to have sex with will she nill she?

The "firm insistence" bit, you'll note, is for after the fact, for getting the survivor of rape to stop victim-blaming herself. Which Anni needs to do.
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby Lovely » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:21 pm

What. The fuck. Is. This shit.

Terrible idea. Inappropriate in all sorts of ways. I don't even.

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Yeah no. This is egregious. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Goodbye.
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby Sun Countess » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:24 pm

So you want cogent arguments about how your "here's an app to record all your sexual encounters just in case one gets a little rapey or a little false-rape-accusationy" is a big pile of fail?

1) Like you already noted, most people don't want to record all their sexual encounters, and even if they have a smartphone app, if a situation gets a bit rapey, the rapist may not agree to wait until the victim can properly position their phone.

2) If you need 3 keys, then you're assuming that both parties to the "is it rape? or just a false rape accusation?" situation will agree to have their "sexual encounter" viewed by people not necessarily of their choosing.

3) Rape isn't just some sort of sexual encounter gone bad, and it's not usually just a case of "she said-he said" or chicks who regret sex the next morning making up false accusations. It's rapists committing a crime, and again, rapists are not likely to assist their victim in acquiring evidence of the crime they're committing.

4) Pretty freaking classist to assume that everybody has access to a smartphone.

5) Pretty freaking victim-blamey to put yet another burden on (mostly) women rape victims to somehow be blamed when they didn't get the latest app to help prevent their rapes, when the real burden should be on the freaking rapists who rape people to quit doing that shit.

6) Even with video evidence (like in the recent Stuebenville case), people will still find a way to blame the victim. Drunk and passed out? How can that possibly be rape? Why did that chick get drunk and passed out in the first place? She was just asking for it.


I'm sure I'll come up with more. But how about instead of promoting new ways to blame the victim for not preventing their rapes very well, or new ways to insinuate that false rape accusations are as prevalent or as damaging as rape itself, how about you work at teaching the concept of enthusiastic consent? Why don't we all work at putting the burden of preventing rape on the perpetrators.

A freaking phone app can't prevent rape, unless it's an alarm that reminds the rapists out there that they should quit raping people.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby armoredscrumobject » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:36 am

Steersman wrote:a unique one per individual encounter held by the justice system that could be released only on court order.
Kind of like the Clipper chip debacle from the '90s? Good luck getting that implemented.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby ApostateltsopA » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:34 am

Thank you Lovey.

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I have read since chastity belts. Your idea will never help the victim. There is no way to get a three key recording going while you are being attacked. Rapes aren't discussed and planned between the victim and rapist, they are a really awful surprise for the victim. The only person who might be helped by this thing is a clever rapist who could use his consent to back up a "bitches be lying" defense.

Seriously, if you want less rape, focus on blaming, and defeating the perpetrators. Help fix the holes in our culture.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby emptyell » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:00 am

armoredscrumobject wrote:
Steersman wrote:a unique one per individual encounter held by the justice system that could be released only on court order.
Kind of like the Clipper chip debacle from the '90s? Good luck getting that implemented.


And I'm sure it would be totally secure and hack proof. There's no way some guys in some obscure east European or ex-soviet location would figure out how to use it to crank out massive involuntary porn sites.
[ Show ]
:sarcasm:


ETA: Compared to filling out consent forms, notarized and in triplicate, it seems like "do you mind if we record our evening together and send a copy to the Feds" would be a real mood killer.

What utter, ridiculous, nonsense.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby Serene » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:25 am

Maybe there is an idea which can be teased out of this which might help someone. Perhaps an app which when activated, immediately begins recording video and audio while uploading. It could even record nearby Bluetooth devices which could provide data on potential witnesses.

I think the original idea is awful, but perhaps modern tools could help catching perps.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby Sun Countess » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:48 am

ApostateltsopA wrote:
Seriously, if you want less rape, focus on blaming, and defeating the perpetrators. Help fix the holes in our culture.

I'm pretty sure that Steersman is not interested in a culture with "less rape" as much as he is interested in exposing all those lying bitches who falsely accuse men of raping them. Because *that's* the real problem. And if those Shroedinger's false-rape-accusers aren't willing to put an app on their phone and record all their sexual encounters, why, that's just more proof that bitches be lying.

Of course, in his final post here, Steersman also reminded us that for those times that false accusations just seem like too much of a hassle, a few particularly tricksy she-devils might figure out a hack for the app so that they can "show [the video] around to her friends for some entertainment." Because that's what bitches do.


:sarcasm:
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby ApostateltsopA » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:56 am

Sun Countess wrote:I'm pretty sure that Steersman is not interested in a culture with "less rape" as much as he is interested in exposing all those lying bitches who falsely accuse men of raping them.


Well the App sure would help with that goal.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby emptyell » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:27 am

Serene wrote:Maybe there is an idea which can be teased out of this which might help someone. Perhaps an app which when activated, immediately begins recording video and audio while uploading. It could even record nearby Bluetooth devices which could provide data on potential witnesses.

I think the original idea is awful, but perhaps modern tools could help catching perps.


This makes some sense. I can imagine several possible deterrent and/or evidentiary devices. Of course it's still putting the burden on the potential/actual victim, but if it can be empowering then...
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby suzysunshine » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:43 am

I'm pretty sure that Steersman is not interested in a culture with "less rape" as much as he is interested in exposing all those lying bitches who falsely accuse men of raping them. Because *that's* the real problem. And if those Shroedinger's false-rape-accusers aren't willing to put an app on their phone and record all their sexual encounters, why, that's just more proof that bitches be lying.
Of course, in his final post here, Steersman also reminded us that for those times that false accusations just seem like too much of a hassle, a few particularly tricksy she-devils might figure out a hack for the app so that they can "show [the video] around to her friends for some entertainment." Because that's what bitches do.


^^totally this^^
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby Mocha » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:48 am

The problem with and app like this is that it then becomes the responsibility of a rape victims to document their rape. Don't have a phone for reasons? Sucks to be you. It's also not like, logistically, a person who is being raped or about to be raped can be like "Excuse me for a moment while I get my phone and open this app and start recording shit." And then the police, oh non-existent gods, the police...how much more harassment do you want victims to get from those assholes? And what about the people who are going to hack it and watch people get raped? If there's one thing that life has taught me on many occasions, it's that abusive people seem to also be incredibly tech savvy, or know someone who is who will get it for them.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby suzysunshine » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:49 am

emptyell wrote:...Compared to filling out consent forms, notarized and in triplicate, it seems like "do you mind if we record our evening together and send a copy to the Feds" would be a real mood killer...


Thank you for the laugh. Could you imagine? Just, no. Not happening.
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Re: Technological Method to Reduce Incidence of Rape

Postby penny.jenny » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:52 am

Steersman wrote:
AndyTheNerd wrote:http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/3/3/4/9/9/3/weapons-grade-facepalm-106847413941.jpeg

Nice image - I'll have to keep it.

However, I suppose that is what you think qualifies as a cogent and detailed rebuttal or critique? Considering the ubiquity of surveillance cameras and other methods of reducing the incidence of other crimes such as robbery and theft, I would think that similar methods might have some utility in this case as well.


I have a security cam on the side of my house to record burglaries when I am not there

If on the other hand I was robbed on a street I would be might pissed off if the cops said "Were you by any chance recording the robbery, cause we might have a bit of a she said he said thing going on if you weren't"

The problem with rape reporting is not that you need a record of what happened, the problem is that people don't believe the victim when they come forward. That is hardly the case in any other crime.

A place that regularly records just going about is Russia, where it is common for citizens to place video cameras on the front of their cars when driving around. They do this because the entire police force is corrupt. That should tell you something about where the focus should be
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby Bruno64 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:57 pm

Holy shit this has to be the most bizarre, rape apologetic garbage I've ever read...but I did love Andy's, "Weapons Grade Facepalm", that was the perfect response.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby Byron » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:46 am

So by this point in the discussion, it's been decided that the OP is a rape apologist who has formulated his (I assume a 'he' from the man part of steersman) plan in order to make things more difficult for women in pressing rape charges.

Interesting. Why has this conclusion been reached, rather than assuming that he came up with his (rather bad) plan in good faith? A bit of a rush to guilt there, no?
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby SubMor » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:56 am

Hey, speaking of posting in bad faith, Byron, why is it that whenever someone says "that argument is rape apology," someone feels the obligation to chime in with "how dare you call xir a rape apologist!"? Did you even read the thread, or did you just look at it long enough to see some buzzwords you don't like? I'd say it's clearly the latter since only one person in this thread has even referenced "rape apology," as the majority have talked about "victim blaming."

Additionally, I'm relatively confident nobody has said anything about Steersman's intent in posting this--only the consequences such an approach would take.

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You are off to a really poor start here. As I said in the other thread, you're going to need to read all of this before you attempt to continue posting here.
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Re: (TW victim blaming) Proposed "Anti-Rape" iPhone App

Postby e4e5 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:27 pm

This is undoubtedly one of the worst troll thread on A+. And that's saying a lot.

Utterly disgusting.
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