[TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

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[TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby AndyTheNerd » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:49 pm

TW: RAPE

I just had to see a graphic photo of little kids getting raped. Which of course is nothing compared to the horror of that actually happening, I am fully aware. I got no trigger warning, it was not hidden behind a cut, it was right there in my RSS feed. See, my feed reader (Feedly) takes the first image on the page and turns it into an icon along side a preview snippet of the text. Which in this case was said graphic photo. Thanks, Ophelia Benson.

link to original post, hella TW here [ Show ]
http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/10/how-little-girls-get-their-virginity-tested/


And what, pray tell, was the content of this post? How outrageous it was that someone else's Facebook account was permanently deactivated for sharing the uncensored photo for all to see. In my mind, sharing an uncensored video of child rape doesn't add anything to the educational value of the message being shared (exposing "virginity tests" for what they really are), nor does it add much shock value over what a censored photo would carry.

This isn't actually a rant, it's a question: am I completely off base here to think that Facebook is in the right and the sharer was in the wrong? Am I overreacting to think that people shouldn't have to look at rape? Am I off-base to think that these photos are actually exploiting those children? Or am I just worried about my little pristine sanitized bubble not being popped?
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Kassiane » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:48 am

For once facebook is right. Wow.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Onamission5 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:57 am

If it was the rape of my kids on public display for anyone to shockhorror or ogle over, I'd be beyond viciously traumatized, as would my kids. The rape of any child, anyone at all, is not shock fodder. I felt the same way about display of the Steubenville victim. How was reposting still shots of her rape on outraged blogs any different *for her* from passing them around her school?
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Euonymus Al » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:57 pm

I was horrified by this too, Andy, FWIW. Because, what the actual fuck? It is never never never okay to publicize images of a sexual assault without the consent of the victim(s). Surely this should be obvious. Right?

Part of me wondered if the not-okayness would have been more obvious to those posting if the victims had been little blonde-haired white girls ... you know? Yeah. Ugh.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby AlexSeanchai » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:17 am

Facebook is, in this instance, in the right. This is a rare thing when talking about Facebook and anything involving rape.

Did Anonymous get the Steubenville survivor's consent, I wonder?
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby ApostateltsopA » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:52 am

Child rape porn on FTB. Disappointed and furious.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby AndyTheNerd » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:08 pm

Thanks all for your input.
ApostateltsopA wrote:Child rape porn on FTB. Disappointed and furious.

And I think that's what threw me off. I thought "I'm horrified, I completely disagree, but what if I'm the one who has lost touch with morality here?" cuz on some level I think I expect more from certain people...
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby ApostateltsopA » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:56 am

AndyTheNerd wrote:Thanks all for your input.
ApostateltsopA wrote:Child rape porn on FTB. Disappointed and furious.

And I think that's what threw me off. I thought "I'm horrified, I completely disagree, but what if I'm the one who has lost touch with morality here?" cuz on some level I think I expect more from certain people...


Well we are bad people here at A+ for opposing this image according to the comments and despite the minor being violated in the image that isn't porn because it documents an atrocity.

At least I agree it is an atrocity. Jesus fucking christ on a wafer that is some sick, sick shit. Apparently if you get raped in Africa he images are anthropology. I called it dark anti-inspiration porn I can not believe what I am seeing.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby armoredscrumobject » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:28 am

It's currently a fact of life on the Internet that your speech is ultimately policed by corporate policies, most of which are written and interpreted to screw you out of any real agency if/when you come to a relevant corporation's particular attention. That is indeed an outrageous state of affairs, but in this situation it's obscene to treat this like a standard let's-all-invoke-the-Streisand-effect situation and give Facebook top billing as the villain.

ApostateltsopA wrote:Apparently if you get raped in Africa he images are anthropology.
This gets right at something that was bugging me about this that I didn't know how to put into words. Thanks.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Grimalkin » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:43 am

I can't wait until someone finds the photos my abuser has and posts them around to protest child sexual abuse. Anthropology!

Yeah I'm getting so much ageism and racism from this. They're brown AND young, so these aren't pictures of people being raped being posted without consent, it's a nature documentary featuring animals.

*gag*

ETA: can we please stop calling it child rape *porn* though? Let's just... not call someone's rape pornographic. It just rubs me the wrong way.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby ApostateltsopA » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:18 am

Grimalkin wrote:ETA: can we please stop calling it child rape *porn* though? Let's just... not call someone's rape pornographic. It just rubs me the wrong way.


Fair enough,

I admit to not liking that word myself, but it's darker intonations seemed appropriate. I suppose it would help if we had a word for involuntary pictures versus those taken with consent.

I just literally can't get my head into a place that agrees with the identity and other protections offered to western victims, admittedly highly imperfectly, and the brazen unedited image posted on FTB. How does someone hold onto that level of cognitive dissonance? "Anthropology" my ass.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Setar » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:57 am

AndyTheNerd wrote:Thanks all for your input.
ApostateltsopA wrote:Child rape porn on FTB. Disappointed and furious.

And I think that's what threw me off. I thought "I'm horrified, I completely disagree, but what if I'm the one who has lost touch with morality here?" cuz on some level I think I expect more from certain people...

oh this isn't the first time Ophelia's had major issues with stuff that isn't feminism -- which, we should all be reminded, usually means "liberation for well-off able white cis women and fuck everyone else" in practice.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Lokayata » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:08 am

I wonder if Ophelia Benson would be OK with pictures of some white American child being raped posted on the internet, completely uncensored, in the name of "news value". Actually, I don't wonder. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't. She'd regard that as horribly exploitative. Of course, if it's black African children we're talking about, "exploitation" becomes "anthropology".
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby AndyTheNerd » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:49 am

Would someone please respond with all our points? I keep trying, but my comment gets eaten as a "possible imposter": http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/arc ... 26#respond
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby ApostateltsopA » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:48 pm

Updated comments on both blogs, thanks for the links Andy.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Supertooth » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:54 pm

That comment thread is an absolute train wreck. I can't believe that people are actually saying those things, particularly Acharya S. People who disagree with her support child abuse? Reprehensible.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby GreatAmericanSatan » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:16 am

i am not eeeven going to look. sounds fucking awful. in a milder instance of atrocity exhibition, i recall going to taslima's blog on ftb & getting a beaten & beheaded corpse above the fold. i don't know anything about acharya s, but i know taslima is from a region of the world where these struggles are often deadly, so she could have a very different perspective from us. she certainly is extremely far short of a+ levels of sensitivity on pretty much every topic. i'll cut her some slack, but i sure as hell ain't gonna to look at her blog on the regular ever again. ophelia & now richard carrier can get bent. FB was right this time.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby ApostateltsopA » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:26 am

The language used to defend the picture soundl like the folks who criticize FTB on feminism. It is really sad. Both Ophelia and Richard are refusing to address how different it would be if the rce of the girls were different.

We ave also hit godwin.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby GreatAmericanSatan » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:41 am

Glad I ain't reading it. Thx for trying.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby AndyTheNerd » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:44 am

ApostateltsopA wrote:We have also hit godwin.

I couldn't resist. [ Show ]
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby armoredscrumobject » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:26 pm

Wow, Carrier's defense is just... bad. It's basically

Part 1) Don't call it "rape", because it doesn't meet the legal definition of "rape".

Part 2) Photojournalism does this all the time, therefore have some implications that you're really advocating widespread censorship of photojournalists due to your lazy thinking.

Part 3) The morality of posting the photos is off-topic because the post is solely about how horrible Facebook is, so fuck off and complain somewhere else.

I expected better from him.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby jet_lagg » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:41 pm

edited for double post
Last edited by jet_lagg on Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby jet_lagg » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:49 pm

armoredscrumobject wrote:Wow, Carrier's defense is just... bad. It's basically

Part 1) Don't call it "rape", because it doesn't meet the legal definition of "rape".

Part 2) Photojournalism does this all the time, therefore have some implications that you're really advocating widespread censorship of photojournalists due to your lazy thinking.

Part 3) The morality of posting the photos is off-topic because the post is solely about how horrible Facebook is, so fuck off and complain somewhere else.

I expected better from him.


The forum seems to have eaten my reply. Hopefully this is not a double post. Anyway...

First, Carrier didn't say not to call it rape. He pointed out that, according to the standard definition of rape, it is not rape. If you want to use something other than the standard definition, I'm sure Carrier will allow it (provided you can make some sort of argument for the usefulness of your definition).

Second, photojournalists do actually do this all the time. If you're going to argue the practice, in general, is bad, then you are arguing for widespread censorship. If that's not what you want, then you'll have to add some more nuance to your argument.

Third, Carrier's comment policy explicitly states he will not allow off topic posts. His blog was about the actions Facebook took and whether or not they were just. It was not about the ethics of journalism. If you think that Murdock violated the ethics of journalism, and that Facebook is within their rights to permanently ban (without warning or option to appeal) someone for violating the ethics of journalism, then go make that argument. I'm certain Carrier will hear you out. New readers could be understood for not knowing that about him. Regular readers have no such excuse.
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby ApostateltsopA » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:20 pm

And when I responded he ig ored everything I posted and told me that talking about the apropriateness of the image is a derail on the thread evaluating if facebook was right or wrong about suspending the account because of the content of the image.

Oh and Ophelia accused me of calling her a mass murderer because Stalin use the eggs and omlets phrase.

I don't even, ... what the hell, why do so many internet people think they are infallable?
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Re: [TW:rape] "Exploitation Porn" and Exposing Atrocity

Postby Lovely » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:21 pm

jet_lagg, Hi you're new to posting.

We ask that all folks new to the site take the time to read the Welcome Basket links before participating.

Couple of things.

When a person is new, the system requires that mods approve the first 10 posts to assure that the member is not here to spam or cause trouble. Your post wasn't eaten.

Your "point 2" about arguing about censorship is complete bull. Saying "Hey, maybe it's racist how black girls, black children from Africa are being shown being sexually assaulted in this photo when it sure as heck wouldn't be allowed if this were a photo of white girls. Hey maybe it's racist that it's considered 'photojournalism' when it's about African children, but if it were about white American children people would blur the shit out it, or perhaps consider the feelings of the victims and not show an image of their sexual assault for all the white people in the world to gawk over" is not censorship.
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